In part two of his exclusive Q+A with Frankie Dettori, Barry Irwin quizzes the legendary jockey about the Kentucky Derby – though the rider has a potentially pressing Classic engagement in Newmarket the same day.
In the second instalment if his interview with Frankie Dettori, Team Valor principal Barry Irwin asks the legendary jockey about the Kentucky Derby and gets him to reflect on his long and garlanded career.
Dettori identifies the ride of which he is most proud, the horse who surprised him the most and the jockeys he most admires – and those who have been his toughest opponents.
• READ WHEN BARRY MET FRANKIE (part one)
Barry Irwin: You’ve won most of the best races in the world. What would it mean to you to win the Kentucky Derby?
Frankie Dettori: At the moment we haven’t got a horse yet! Plenty of things are coming up with trials [prep races] and so forth. Getting a horse that is good enough to have a shot at it, of course that would get us very excited. But that is faraway right now and I haven’t got anything concrete right now, so I don’t want to think about that too much.
As you know, I already have a very decent ride in the 2,000 Guineas in Chaldean, who would be one of the favorites at Newmarket on the same day at the Kentucky Derby. So, it would really need to be a good one to keep me here. I like to keep my options open and, like I said, you never know. I might land something like an American Pharoah. Then it’s a completely different ball game.
You came up as a rider in an era when trainers were hard taskmasters with strict codes of behavior. Do you think today’s younger horsemen are more relaxed in their relationships with jockeys?
I think every generation is the same. The jockey-trainer relationship has been more or less the same for the last 300 years. I don’t think it’s going to change with a new generation. There are people who enjoy working with someone that is self-employed like a rider. Some trainers like to change riders a lot, while others value a steady relationship. So we have to rely on the character of the trainers.
In the 80s and 90s there was a massive influx of big owners who retained jockeys – I worked with Sheikh Mohammed for 18 years – but I think it’s becoming less and less now. The big owners are getting older and a lot of smaller owners and syndicates that are unable to retain a rider. So I think that’s totally changed.
Do you regularly, both at home and in the US, breeze horses in the morning?
When I work for John Gosden, basically in the spring you will work Tuesday and Saturday and then when we get later in the season you probably reduce it to Wednesday and Saturday because our horses were getting fitter by running.
I’ve kind of seen the same pattern here at Santa Anita. I was working quite a few horses before the meet started. Now that we are halfway through the meet, the horses have been running, so when I am asked to ride one in the morning it’s usually a pretty decent one before an important race.
In US grass racing, contests are conducted on sharp turns and over short stretches. Because of these features, is having a mount with a turn of foot less effective here than it is in Europe?
Good question. Basically there is pace in 90% of the races in America. In everyday racing, speed is probably more important than turn of foot. Most of these animals don’t have a turn of foot, so to get a good position with speed, usually will win you the game. This is why we are all riding like hell just to get to the turn because once you get to the stretch there’s not much room left before you hit the wire.
Which single ride are you most proud of in terms of your tactics being most impactful for the victory?
Well, probably Golden Horn in the Arc de Triomphe. I drew way on the outside and the first half-mile I was way out there on the course by myself. Then I slotted in just before the bend in third position. That’s not the job for everyone, but it was something that I thought about.
Obviously I ran it through John Gosden, the trainer, and he kind of gave me a wide canvass and said, yeah, go for it. So I had the confidence, first on the horse and also the confidence to tell my trainer that we had to think outside the box if we wanted to win. It is probably the best race in the world to win so I feel that it was one of my best ones.
Which horse in which race gave you your biggest surprise?
Not very long ago – Country Grammer in the Dubai World Cup. Because it was funny. Obviously, I went into the race thinking, you know, it’s a solid chance but Life Is Good looked like he was unbeatable, and when we got to the half-mile pole Life Is Good was just cruising on the lead. Country Grammer is third. Oh my god, I’m thinking, I’m gonna just take my foot off the gas a little bit because I don’t know if I will have anything left for the end.
And then as we’ve gone through to the eighth pole, Life Is Good runs out of gas, we pass him and we win it. So that was one of my biggest surprises. I love that horse.
Which rival jockey was or is the most difficult one to beat to the finishing post?
Michael Kinane had to be one of the strongest. We had some tremendous battles in that era, because he was the Coolmore jockey and I was with Godolphin.
One jockey that was very, very hard to beat was Kieren Fallon because he was so hard to read. Many times I followed him and thought he had nothing left, then the next thing I knew he would beat me. So difficult because of his unusual body language.
Historically, which jockey or jockeys have you admired the most?
First of all, I gotta say, my dad started it off. Naturally he was my first hero. And then when I went to England, I was a big fan of Steve Cauthen. And then Steve retired. So then I sat next to Pat Eddery for 15 years, I became very close with him.
But you know, the one I relied on for my technique and my style was Angel Cordero. In 1990 I came to New York to ride in the Breeders’ Cup and Angel took me on the side for a week, he took me to his place, he showed me how to ride my toes in the irons because I used to ride with the whole foot in.
He put me on the mechanical horse – and, yeah, he gave me a free lesson! Now, I am forever grateful for it, because he is such a nice man and what a good teacher. I love the way he used to ride. I mean, I used to be obsessed by it. That’s why I stole his flying dismount.
Having a father as a brilliant jockey in his own right surely must be an advantage, right?
Oh, Dad is, in quotes, ‘a pain in the backside still!’ He’s 82 now, he still yells at me and he still talks to me like I’m an apprentice. He wants to scrutinize every race. Listen, I enjoy the bollockings, it’s quite fun. It used to get to me when I was quite young, but not anymore.
We have an amazing working relationship. He roots for me, he gives me his opinion. We discuss and argue. Remember, sometimes it’s nice to have somebody to talk to about the races. He can be quite volatile sometimes, though. There’s no ‘well done’ – there’s proper shouting matches. But that’s the Italian way, you know? I would say it’s a typical father-son relationship. You would think he’d ease up by now, but not the case.
Most professionals bring their work home with them. Are you able to discuss your work day with your wife, or do you try to keep that sort of thing ‘in the office’?
I’ll be honest with you, I don’t bring racing back home. I may mention if I had a winner or two. Or if I lost a close photo-finish in a stakes, you know, it still leaves a sour taste in my mouth. In general, though, I always try to move on, because defeat can eat at your heart. Yes, it is better to put it on the side and move on because, after all, you can’t change it.
Any plans after you’ve retired?
At the moment Ascot in October will be my last one in England and then I will fly to Santa Anita to do the Breeders’ Cup. That at the moment is my plan to be the last one. But I’ve never won the Melbourne Cup and that is three days after the Breeders’ Cup, so if I got a decent mount, I might just go straight out and give it a go.
As for what the future may hold, I’m in talks with some channels to work on TV. Maybe buy or sell a few horses, be a bloodstock agent. I’m sure plenty of things will come along.
What is your favorite racecourse?
Well, because I’ve been very lucky in the Arc de Triomphe in Paris, I love Longchamp. It’s a very tricky track, and it’s a massive occasion. I won it six times with some great horses. I must say if I had to pick one big race, that could be it.
You know I’ve only rode the Kentucky Derby once and I am not that familiar with it or a student of the race, but if the opportunity comes, I’ll take it with both hands.
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